BIT01: OOP-I, We Have Some Things To Do

by **BIT0102-Mohaimin** Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:26 am

Today Sakib Sir talked to Amit and me about OOP-I course. We, the first batch, are given some responsibilities of this course. Here is the summery of the discussion with Sakib Sir.

We will guide 2nd semester students in the labs of their OOP-I course.

Sakib Sir advised an approach: Through out the semester, we will make them do a complete project. The project will be divided into several parts. The parts may or may not be done independently, but at the end of the semester, all parts will be merged to a single product.
Each of the parts will be HURDLES (you know the term ) and everyone MUST pass all the hurdles

We will decide the course detail and time lines

What the project will be is up to us.

No one is bound to contribute. Its totally voluntary, but you should contribute if you think you can help

The goal is to build the confidence. At the end of the semester NO ONE should say that s/he knows nothing about Java

What will we do?

The elementary programming course requires close monitoring, which is nearly impossible for a single person. As we are many, we hope this requirement will be fulfilled.

We have two things to do: taking class and checking the class/home works. Checking the works MUST be done in the lab, NOT via email or some other media.

Which topics should be covered

The first point is output of discussion between Amit and me. All others are my personal opinion decided within few minutes. Suggestions are very much necessary. The database part is a secondary Objective. It wil be covered depending on progress of the students.
Remember each class will be approximately 4 hours long and there will be one week time between two consecutive classes. Considering the vacations, we may get 15 to 17 classes. So, we may need to shrink some classes.

Hello World and Object Oriented Principals: Class and Object, PIE, Single Responsibility Principal, Namespace etc. These should be covered in 6 classes.

Arrays, String, IO and other basic language features. 2 classes.

Generics (Prerequisite of Collections) 0.5 class

The collections framework basic, 1.5 classes

Exception Handling, 1 class

Threading, 1 class

Swing, 3 classes

Database, Rest of the time

Suggested projects

The projects will be scaled to the level of the students. I mean, some parts of the projects may simply be simulation, nothing real. So you can suggest ANYTHING, forget about feasibility. We all will sit together to scale the project to the level of 2nd semester students. The projects should reflect the learning of the course. For example, a media player is a great thing to do, but it focuses on some very special frameworks. We should try to focus on something generic.

This project is suggested by Sakib Sir. This is a credit card shopping system. The work will mostly be simulation based. There will be no real credit cards.

A To Do List. The user can make a do do list, and will be notified when the time comes.

A Cricket Sore Card. The scorekeeper will use it to insert all possible scores in a cricket match.

Games like Tic Tac Toe or Mineswiper

Address Book with file implementation or database(later) for advanced topics.

An Special Purpose Calculator primarily with console IO, then with GUI and may be with database later.

What to do right now

Now you have to give some suggestions about the Topics to be covered and the project. You can choose one or more from already suggested projects, or you can suggest something new. The suggested project list will be updated when you suggest something.
Please confirm if you want to participate.
Please reply within tomorrow. We have to confirm Sakib Sir within Monday if we want to start from next Saturday.

Who Are In

Alim

Amit

Anik

Mohaimin

Muctadir

Rayhan

Shakkhor

Toma

by **BIT0122-Amit** Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:54 am

The goal is to build the confidence. At the end of the semester ALL of them MUST be confident with OOP

Erm, I think complete confidence within 6 months about OOP is not possible. Surely, they can be confident about using Java to produce output, and OOP to some extent.

About generics/collections framework. I think it will be a bit overload for them. I am not saying that these are impossible to learn, but understanding them requires some working knowledge about inheritance and others. Of course, they can understand how to use them, instead of understanding how they can be used for maximum potential.. but lets say.... they will be introduced to hash map, and keys at the end of 2nd semester. So if we touch this, this should be done at the last part. They will be able to establish relation with the course related to algorithm and Java collections framework, at least theoretically.

Threading can be introduced, but I suggest we ignore this in the project part.

In my humble opinion, we should concentrate on less number of contents to maximize efforts in them. We should remember that we are dealing with the whole class, not a group of picked up students.

by **BIT0111-muctadir** Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:05 am

Very good idea.
Games like Tic Tac Toe or Mineswiper can be good for learning JAVA and Address Book with file implementation or database(later) for advanced topics.

I can help with some primary topics.

by **BIT0102-Mohaimin** Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:37 am

BIT0122-Amit wrote:
I think complete confidence within 6 months about OOP is not possible. Surely, they can be confident about using Java to produce output, and OOP to some extent.

Agreed. I wanted to mean that no one will say "I have almost no idea about Java". Actually the post was made within very short time (because we have to decide fast) so I missed a lot of detail.

BIT0122-Amit wrote:About generics/collections framework. I think it will be a bit overload for them. I am not saying that these are impossible to learn, but understanding them requires some working knowledge about inheritance and others. Of course, they can understand how to use them, instead of understanding how they can be used for maximum potential.. but lets say.... they will be introduced to hash map, and keys at the end of 2nd semester. So if we touch this, this should be done at the last part. They will be able to establish relation with the course related to algorithm and Java collections framework, at least theoretically.

Added the word "Basic" with content.

BIT0122-Amit wrote:Threading can be introduced, but I suggest we ignore this in the project part.

I think threading is not necessary for this semester. If we need to shrink the timeline, we can shrink it from here.

BIT0122-Amit wrote:
In my humble opinion, we should concentrate on less number of contents to maximize efforts in them. We should remember that we are dealing with the whole class, not a group of picked up students.

I agree here too. The six weeks for OO Principals is fixed I suppose. We will have good amount of time to discuss this. Smile

by **BIT0103-Ovid** Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:45 am

I can help if require. Specially with the PIE part

by **BIT0104-ANIK** Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:29 am

I'm in. I'd very glad if I can contribute in this initiative.

by **BIT0122-Amit** Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:51 am

Mohaimin,

I think you forgot to mention the HURDLE part Devilish

by **BIT0102-Mohaimin** Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:36 pm

BIT0122-Amit wrote:Mohaimin, I think you forgot to mention the HURDLE part

How could I forget that.
Adding now

by **BIT0102-Mohaimin** Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:40 pm

Everyone should suggest a project or vote for a Project.

by **BIT0122-Amit** Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:08 am

Rayhan suggested an interesting proposal.
He said, some of us has off days on Sundays, and some of us has off days on Saturdays.

He proposed that the ones who have off days on Saturday only, should take class on Saturday, and those who have off days on Sunday and Saturday/only Sunday should take class on Sunday.

I think he will post here soon, but just in case, I am posting this.

Also, we were supposed to be given time slots. Any news about it yet?

About projects, according to me, to do list is way more smaller and easier than both Score Card and Address book (provided that I correctly guessed the requirements of Address Book).
Maybe we can assign them do To Do List, and then assign them then harder ones as an incremental approach.

by **BIT0101-rayhan** Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:07 am

It will be great pleasure for me to help juniors develop good concepts about OOP. Thanks to Amit, he already mentioned about the timeline. Amit, I and many others only have time on Saturday, so a strict timetable should be quickly settled that should be really helpful.

As per my thinking, OOP concepts is the primary focus but a specific language is the vehicle of that learning. Traditionally, most of us prefers Java as the starter language for learning an OOP based language. But, trend has been changed. If you guys explore the job circulation, you will easily notice that about 60% software firms asks developers proficient in PHP & Python, then about 30% in .NET, rest of them is for JAVA and others....!!!! (If I am not mistaken....)....Meanwhile, java SE is almost obsolete for developing desktop based applications, Web apps development are getting friendlier and friendlier with PHP & ASP .NET & MVC framework.

As, PHP is not our option, nor the Python language, considering the facts of market analysis and developer's perspective, C# should be the default choice but definitely it needs other's consent and IIT's approval too.

As IIT preferes Linux based distributions for learning purposes, learning C# is not an issue any more as C#/.NET applications can be executed smoothly in Linux platforms via Monodevelop or newly introduced Xamarine platform.

By the way, I will be happy to contribute whatever the language is or whatever the topic is... I just need some convenient timeline on Saturday most likely after 11 AM.

by **BIT0101-rayhan** Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:12 am

The projects my fellows mentioned, they are already implemented. So, it is better to give them some brand new ideas to implement.

For project ideas, there are lot of sites for projects. Also juniors can grow ideas by exploring freelancing sites......

by **BIT0122-Amit** Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:16 am

Thank you for the insightful post Rayhan Very Happy

Now, the thing about projects, agreed. But there are always some timeless projects which makes others understand something. For example, calculator, library management system.

However, we were told that we should give ideas about real life problems. We thought and came up with the above mentioned projects. If you can give us some unique ideas, it will be really helpful. Very Happy

About the .Net, agreed.

by **BIT0102-Mohaimin** Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:32 am

As, PHP is not our option, nor the Python language, considering the facts of market analysis and developer's perspective, C# should be the default choice but definitely it needs other's consent and IIT's approval too.

This is a good idea, but I don't think the authority will approve this in this semester. Still we can propose it.
Although Java is my favourite, I agree with Rayhan that Java SE is almost obsolete. Still, I have one point in favour of Java that it is comparatively easy to learn (I think) because it is older and restricts a lot of thinks.

2 days a week is obviously better. I had another thing in mind that Alim has 5-7 days weekend a week. So, he can cover if we cannot maintain the timeline. This is plan B of course, we will be in time.
Lets see how much time the authority allocates for us.

About the project, I am with both To Do List and Cricket Score Card. Amit votes for To Do List. That means At the moment, To Do List is on the top.

by **BIT0101-rayhan** Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:40 am

It actually depends on many things.... apart from some timeline and academic related constraints, it also depends heavily on which platform we are going to give them ideas for projects....

for example, if the language is Java, then a real life cricket scorecard or any other rich UI driven apps with database at the back end will be a very satisfactory project for the newbies.... but the some project in .net platfrom which has mighty powerful supports for developing rich UI and backend database with some drag and drops IS NOT BY ANY MEANS SUFFICIENT. (of course the software will not be that much complex.....)

Now, I am surprised at myself as my mind is blank kinda... I can't think any tough desktop based projects suitable for newbies that is 'really tough to develop in .NET'... lol!

by **BIT0102-Mohaimin** Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:43 am

I was trying to find out the hurdles and identified one problem with To Do List.
Without multi-threading the product can be unusable. But we were thinking about skipping threading. What say?

by **BIT0101-rayhan** Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:46 am

Multi threading may seem complex but it should not be skipped......

by **BIT0102-Mohaimin** Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:51 am

It actually depends on many things.... apart from some timeline and academic related constraints, it also depends heavily on which platform we are going to give them ideas for projects....

I think we should forget about something other than Java because the course has already been started with Java and it is very less likely to be changed. If you think about two languages parallel, I will remind you our OOP-I: we had C++ and Java together and it was horrible.

Reminding everyone, we have to confirm Sakib Sir within tomorrow about the Project with specific hurdles.

by **BIT0122-Amit** Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:13 am

Without multi-threading the product can be unusable. But we were thinking about skipping threading. What say?

I am curious. Can you explain this 'unusable' part?
Multi threading can be introduced, but should not be the part of Hurdle. Sure, it can be a bonus feature. But Hurdle for full class? We should reconsider this.

About .net, it is no more difficult than java. And it has more Object Oriented sense, compared to java. But considering .net's potential..... it will be too bad if we don't touch it at all. Say, can we arrange a bonus session or two which will be somewhat like Introduction to .Net?

by **BIT0220-Iftekhar** Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:40 am

Amit ভাই wrote:
Say, can we arrange a bonus session or two which will be somewhat like Introduction to .Net?

That would help 2nd batch too. I think you can consider this idea for the sake of both 2nd and 3rd batch.

by **BIT0102-Mohaimin** Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:23 am

I am curious. Can you explain this 'unusable' part?

Actually, I developed a reminder once and that heavily depended on Threading. Of course there can be some clever solutions without threading.

About .net, it is no more difficult than java. And it has more Object Oriented sense, compared to java. But considering .net's potential..... it will be too bad if we don't touch it at all. Say, can we arrange a bonus session or two which will be somewhat like Introduction to .Net?

I did not work a lot with .net so I am not sure. But you already know that they will learn in Web Tech Course. Again, .net completely Microsoft Technology which may potentially harm in case of learning Linux by making bound to use windows.

by **BIT0102-Mohaimin** Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:31 am

And it has more Object Oriented sense, compared to java.

I dont understand why you think so. Is it for that Java has primitive types? Thats not a big problem!

by **BIT0101-rayhan** Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:44 am

Guys... this is not about java or c#, this is not about microsoft or linux.... IIT's mission and vision is to develop a young workforce that will be 'industry ready' when they will get their graduation certificate..??? Isn't it???? That is why the issue of .NET is raised....

Actually what can we learn from our internship so far...??? has anyone managed a java developing firms for their internship..??? Even our Java Guru Bozlu:D:D:D.... In BD, most firms who works on Java, do not tend to take freshers as java developers, rather they prefers experienced java developers....

So, we need to adopt what the current developing world adopts....

by **BIT0102-Mohaimin** Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:01 am

BIT0101-rayhan wrote:
Actually what can we learn from our internship so far...??? has anyone managed a java developing firms for their internship..??? Even our Java Guru Bozlu:D:D:D.... In BD, most firms who works on Java, do not tend to take freshers as java developers, rather they prefers experienced java developers....

Has anyone found much difficulty working with .net because of not knowing it before (Considering that s/he would work well if it was Java)? I dont think so. Again, its confirmed that the web tech course will be in .net from now.
C# can be a good choice obviously. But I dont find any point to jump directly to .net framework for OOP. .Net is powerful, wonderful, huge and a poor choice for a beginner I think.

Alright, the time is short. First thing to do is that we have to finalize a project with several hurdles.

by **BIT0111-muctadir** Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:03 am

BIT0101-rayhan wrote:IIT's mission and vision is to develop a young workforce that will be 'industry ready'

completely agreed. But, industry is dynamic. You never know which platform or language will be popular next time. For example, a couple of years ago VB was very very popular. But, currently look at the market and you will find out the difference. And according to our MD sir of Binary Quest market is going toward python. So, in my openion we can call someone "industry ready" is he or she has a good concept of programming and OOP. So, instead of bargain on platform or language, we should talk about road map.

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BIT01: OOP-I, We Have Some Things To Do